Talk:Viability Ranking/@comment-2602:306:C5D2:1950:2118:21F3:1DB6:3C50-20200118063007/@comment-2602:306:C5D2:1950:9411:54DD:A87A:41F5-20200121050840

"Oh boy, this thread is only gonna get longer and longer as you keep trying to convince me Burotgor is good, ain't it?"

If you think Grumpex is good, then Burotgor is good. Also, just because you don't like a monster doesn't mean they aren't good. I don't like Crabbydroid, but I can at least admit the fact that he's a great monster.

"Tortures deal damage in percentages. This means that, do these Tortures target the tank of the team, this sentence is dead wrong. Tortures are the highly preferred method of killing these days. Hell, you repeat it yourself all the damn time; pure damage is not liked in the current meta over Tortures."

Only if they are applied on the tank I'm wrong and correct me if I'm wrong, but killing the tank isn't your main priority if you have TD or PER. So, Burotgor's pure damage will still deal more than Grumpex's tortures if being used on a monster that is more of a threat. While I do say tortures are better than pure damage, that doesn't mean Grumpex is better. Most monsters that apply tortures can spread tortures to the whole team efficiently, while Grumpex is not good at applying tortures to the whole team, so in this case Tortures probably wouldn't be better since they will mostly be applied to 1 monster at a time.

"Man, he only does have a single AoE skill...and I'm sure Burotgor is so much better in that regard. He must just be a god of those AoEs, which he would have to be to make the comparison valid when comparing the two."

When did I say Burotgor was better at AoEs? When did I compare Burotgor to Grumpex when talking about AoEs? When I mentioned him only having 1 AoE skill I was referring to you saying he can spread tortures, which Grumpex really can't tbh. This part had nothing to do with Burotgor, instead it was mentioned to point out the fact that Grumpex can't really spread tortures.

"Also, I'm not trying to call him the next Gualgui, but being able to apply 2 Tortures at once in 2 separate moves is pretty sweet for spreading, as I can again say from personal experience."

It really isn't as great as you think. (I know you have personal experience with it, but so do I. I got Grumpex when he was released, used him a lot in wars when I could and he really can't spread tortures well.) Why try to use Grumpex to spread tortures when other monsters can do it much more efficiently? Taking 2 turns, with a monster that isn't meant to get many turns since he is mainly an attacker, just to apply 2 tortures to 2 monsters isn't that great at spreading.

"And Burotgor doesn't with his non-existent AoEs and luck-based gameplay?"

He does, but he is far better at it than Grumpex. Also, you're acting like Burotgor's whole plan is to kill enemies only with Bloodthirsty. Burotgor can kill most monsters, aside from tanks, without the use of Bloodthirsty. So, in reality his gameplay isn't luck based.

"One, Taunt tanks. Two, you say this as if it's a guaranteed chance he will land that one attack to kill that one monster."

One, Burotgor will most likely end up with a hit on the taunt tank, which will 1 shot any monster, even a tank, if he has Bloodthirsty. Two, I said he will most likely, not that it's guaranteed, and your math helps prove my point that it's most likely he gets to hit the enemy at least once rather than missing both times. Also, Grumpex has the same problem as Burotgor does. The Taunt tanks would just absorb all the tortures ruining Grumpex's chance at trying to mediocrely spread tortures.

"This means he has a 75% chance of landing a single attack of those two, just to possibly have it absorbed by a Taunt tank that possibly doesn't die because Life runes. "

So you're telling me that a monster with Triple Damage, Strength Runes, and high damaging skills can't kill a Tank because of Life Runes? That is not true in the slightest. As previously mentioned, Burotgor using Bestial Hits is equivalent to a monster with 3700 strength using a 71.5 damagin skill. And you think that coupled with Strength runes and Triple Damage, a Tank will still live that?

"Grumpex, meanwhile, isn't based on raw luck and will consistently land his moves, which are not that much weaker thanks to his higher Power and apply Tortures that have the potential to deal substantial damage, even if they're absorbed by Taunt."

This is false. Burotgor doesn't rely on raw luck either. Grumpex's skills are in fact much weaker. His higher power stat isn't greater by that much and holds very little weight to how much more damage will actually be done to the enemy. The tortures won't be enough to close the significant gap that Burotgor creates with how high his skills damage the opponents.

"meaning that if the support of the team will have their support moves repeated if it goes to him, also. This has the potential to be huge, such as with turn transfers or team healing moves."

Turn Transfers equal more turns for anticipation. Team Healing moves are pretty uncommon, so this was kinda pointless to mention.

"Four, if he isn't a big threat, then why bother avoid him when the Mirror is up? Clearly, he's not a problem, so even if the skill gets reflected, it's obviously not going to do much."

I'm sorry for sounding rude, but this was straight up dumb. Obviously he isn't a big threat, but that doesn't mean that the skills being used aren't gonna be threats to your own team. It's not that Grumpex is a threat, its that the skills that would be used on him are good. Also, why the hell would you target a monster if they aren't a threat? Wouldn't you want to try to target the monsters that are threats rather than the ones that aren't?

"Meaning he goes through the turn untouched unless the enemy has PER."

PER is super common, especially in AoE skills, so don't count on him actually keeping it.

"I willingly lose sleep to defend the idea that Grumpex is worse than this luck-based furry bitch, but I'm not insane."

I'm gonna be honest, this part bothers the hell out of me. You act like everything Burotgor does revolves around him using Bloodthirsty. You focus on what negative that he has and don't shy away from it. You act like he literally can't do anything with out it, even tho this is completely false. You need to broaden the way you look at monsters because focusing on this one negative he has and generalizing the monster based on this one thing, when it isn't the case is not a good way to look at it. You do the same thing with Nikasia too. I'm guessing there's nothing that will change your mind about Grumpex vs Burotgor, but I'm just gonna say that I think Burotgor is better, and your hate towards the monster doesn't need you to make him try to seem far worse than he actually is.