Talk:Viability Ranking/@comment-2602:306:C5D2:1950:2118:21F3:1DB6:3C50-20200118063007/@comment-2602:306:C5D2:1950:7CF5:C8C9:5DB6:DF8B-20200120203449

"Grumpex may have less powerful moves, but he also has tortures. Lots of tortures."

The problem is that aside from 2 tortures, the rest are all random which makes it possible for you to get tortures that were already applied to the enemy. His tortures aren't all that reliable and even with the tortures Burtogor still deals more damage and will kill the enemies faster. Burotgor still does a better job as an attacker since he can kill the enemies much quicker. Also, Grumpex has only 1 AoE skill that can apply tortures, so he really isn't that great at applying tortures in general. He would have to take out monsters 1 by 1 with Tortures and the damage he deals and he would do this much slower than Burotgor could do with his damage.

"his damage is greatly bolstered by those."

It isn't bolstered enough to give him a higher damage output that Burotgor's.

"Grumpex has access to a nice move with NER, Precision, and an exta turn. Combine this with Skill Mirror, and he ends up with just as many extra turns as Burotgor, and without Blinding himself on one of them."

Yes Burotgor will blind himself, but as previously stated, he almost always at least gets 1 hit when blinded which is a guarenteed kill on one monster, while Grumpex with his extra turns most likely won't be able to get a kill on a monster. Also, Grumpex's skill mirror skill really isn't that good. It deals low damage, and the skill mirror only lasts for 1 turn. For that one turn that it's active you can just ignore Grumpex completely seeing as he isn't that big of a threat and then his skill mirror will go away. While if Burotgor has his Triple Damage + Blind applied, it wouldn't be good to ignore since you'd be taking a huge risk. I will admit his NER skill is nice and makes him less reliant on a support monster.

"he can use those turns to do that Torture spreading previously mentioned."

Grumpex can't spread tortures that well since he has only 1 skill that is an AoE torture and it's random so it may not even give you a useful one.

"Small one that doesn't affect the argument too much, but I'd also like to mention that his Trait is literally just a better version of Burotgor's, and, as you mention, he's better in literally every stat, and by a decent margin, too."

The only stat that Grumpex has a huge advantage over Burotgor in is health and Burotgor can make up for his lower survivability by being able to heal himself. Burotgor's power is only slightly lower than Grumpex's, but that doesn't really matter all that much since Burotgor will still be dealing more damage than Grumpex will. Someone on the Discord said that for a monster to deal the same amount of damage as Burotgor when he uses his 75 damage skill, they would have to have 3700 as their power and they would need a 71.5 damage skill to deal about the same damage as Burotgor. Seeing as Grumpex has neither and his numbers are significantly lower than the ones required, Burotgor will be dealing far more damage than Grumpex. Also, their speed really doesn't hold too much weight either since Attackers are usually some of the monsters that tend to get turns last.

Last thing I want to mention is that Burotgor is great at taking out monsters from the Thunder element. There are a good amount of Thunder element monsters in the meta such as Thundeer, Wildbird, Hornet, Neobuki, Volthar, the Faraday's, and Warmaster Babari. I think Grumpex is just worse than Burotgor. Not by too much, but still worse